It seems like Middle Kids have been around forever, and yet they’re just getting started. With a massively successful self-titled EP (2017), their debut album ‘Lost Friends’ (2018) and the ‘New Songs For Old Problems’ EP (2019), the Sydney trio — Hannah Joy, Tim Fitz, and Harry Day — have proven themselves to be one of the nation’s finest indie-rock exports. From the beginning, they’ve been dedicated to making music that’s realistic, but not necessarily pessimistic, and the result has resonated.

Their new album ‘Today We’re The Greatest’ delves further into this niche, with the band drawing on personal experiences to create their most mature-sounding album yet. Frontwoman Hannah exuded passion and pride as she spoke with us about recording in LA while heavily pregnant, stepping into a studio for the first time, and promoting a record during a pandemic

Georgia Griffiths: I’ve been listening to the album, I love it. It’s very, very good. Congratulations! How are you feeling about it all?

Hannah Joy: We’ve had it finished for ages, and now all of a sudden, it’s really fun that we’re talking about it. The last few days have been really fun to remember it, because I can’t remember the last time I listened to it. I feel really excited. And we feel really proud of this record, too. All three of us are excited to get it out there.

Absolutely! You recorded it quite a while ago. How has everything that’s changed in the last year or so impacted the album, the way you think about it, and the way you think people will receive it?

We made it so long ago, I guess, you could run the risk of feeling like, “I don’t relate to that anymore.” But we totally don’t feel that which is really nice. We feel so thankful that we were able to get that out before everything else kind of shut down. We were going to release it, but then we didn’t know how we would do that without being able to tour and whatnot. But we feel really open about it — maybe that’s because of the time, and because when you go through a pandemic, you don’t hold things as tightly anymore. We don’t know what it means for us, especially because we can’t tour, but it doesn’t matter because we like this music. We’ll just see what the next thing is for us, but we don’t know what that is.

It makes a lot of sense at the moment, when everyone’s a bit like “We don’t really know how it’s gonna work out”, even a year on. When I was listening to “Summer Hill” inparticular, I was thinking about it through a COVID lens.

It’s funny. I wrote that song in 2013. A few people have asked about that, because the lyric sobviously lend itself to that, but it’s kind of cool. In this record there are themes that align with these times. Maybe that’s because there are a lot of themes of loneliness and intimacy and that can apply to any stage of life. Maybe because it’s called “Summer Hill”, too. That’s where Harry used to live. It has nothing to do with anything, except that we loved going to Harry’s house in Summer Hill and I, for some reason, when I was listening to that track back after we recorded it, I would keep picturing myself walking down his street. I don’t really know why. We were like “Oh, let’s call it “Summer Hill”.” 

That’s fair. My only knowledge of Summer Hill is going past it on the train. It’s one of those things, everyone has a different relationship with it.

Yeah, and it’s cool too, because I feel like we’ve sometimes wrestled with “Oh, should we call this a place?” Maybe it’s too parochial? But actually, it’s really not, so we’re lucky.

What were your goals when you were creating the album?

We actually had some very clear goals. We’ve never been goal-oriented before, particularly in terms of what we create. It’s been very organic — “Here’s a song. Let’s record that. It could be a demo, but actually, it’s the real thing.” It’s all been very much just making whatever is flowing out and feeling, and that was really, really fun. It was also a by-product of us spending so much time touring that we would be making things on an off day, so it was very different with this record.

I really wanted to be a lot more thoughtful and intentional with this record. We had two words that we were shaping around, which were beauty and power, and the marriage of these two things. We really wanted to create beautiful spaces with the imagery and with sound. A lot of our music is quite beat-driven with a lot of energy, so we’re using power in that way, but then also thinking about how to bring power into it in more of a softer way, which you can hear on this record, because there are so many more moments of quieter, stripped-back songs. That was something that I really wanted. That’s a lot of the music that I like, and all of us like. We’d been doing the indie-rock thing, and we really love that, and there’s obviously still that on the record. But what we play is actually a lot broader than that, so we wanted to bring that into this record.

You can definitely hear it on the record. This was the first record where you’ve really delved into more personal stuff, as opposed to creating a narrative. How was that for you, stepping into that more personal zone?

That happened more naturally than anything, the songs were built usually around a melody and some chords and I felt like those things actually came out pretty free-flowingly — whether that was because I was pregnant and I was in this place of being quite thoughtful and reflective, that’s probably a big part of it. But I am also desiring to live more in that way. I want to live more openly, vulnerably, and that naturally influences what I sing and write about. That just comes from me and what I’m choosing in my life. The actual songs, most of them were very quick to come, and the craftsmanship was more around the songs. It’s building it up and creating, thinking how about we add instrumentations and grooves that help highlight the song and the spirit of the song, which was a very fun process to go through.

You can definitely hear the effort that was put into that on the record. What was the process like, doing that when you were heavily pregnant and overseas?

It was actually amazing. I was quite nervous going into it because I didn’t know how I was going to be able to sing, because at that point the baby was seven months and they’re definitely pushing on your lungs at that size! There were definitely some physical challenges in that for sure, but it was just cool to see how your body can really rise to them. I just had to take little naps during the session so there’s all these photos of us jamming, and then me curled up in a ball on the couch. It was a pretty surreal experience. We did it in fourteen days. We never even got over our jetlag because we flew in, went to the studio the next morning, and then we got out at night, so we never really saw sunlight. 

We could never get on the right sleeping pattern. It was actually the trippiest thing ever, but it was kind of cool to be in this little world we made for fourteen days. We’d never been in the studio before, we’ve always been making things at home, so it was cool to be in a space that was unknown and to bring in new sounds. We’re playing with these instruments we’ve never even seen before! Some of these old synthesisers from the ’70s, or we had twelve-string guitars and six-string banjos and all these things that were just around that you just pick up and be like, “Oh, that sounds really cool”. It was a wonderful experience. But if you had asked me, “What do you think about recording in fourteen days being heavily pregnant?”, I would have been like, “That sounds terrible!” But actually, it was really awesome.

That’s good to hear. I do want to double-back and talk about that experience of recording in a studio for the first time, because I know the earliest records were all very DIY, which I think had such an influence on your sound. How did that go working on this record, as opposed to in the past?

We’re so stoked that we did it in a studio because there’s something cool about DIY, but it also just sounds way better in the studio. It’s got to align with the kind of music you’re making. We felt ready to go in the studio, because the three of us have been on such a journey. At the beginning of the band, it started as my solo project; I would kind of make the things then we’drecorded together. There’s just so much more of a togetherness and a collaborative spirit amongst us and a knowing of each other now. That then sets you up to go into another space and have a lot more freedom and trust with one another.

It was a good time for us to do that because we’ve come so far together. We already knew the songs, and the spirit of each of the songs, before we went into the studio. It meant we had confidence going in, because the songs are there, which is a wonderful place to be because there’s no pressure. We’re just adding colours and textures and bolstering what’s already there and not trying to save something or be like “Oh, fuck, we need another song.” We’d go into the studio and just throw stuff on it, and then see what stuck.

It definitely sounds like a better position to be in. I also want to talk about the title of the album. I had a listen to the track it’s based on and I found it really interesting that you chose a specific part of the larger lyric. You’ve gone with ‘Today We’re The Greatest’ but the lyric is, “but today we’re the greatest even though we feel so small.” Can you explain that a little further?

It’s interesting because, yes, titling your album ‘Today We’re The Greatest’ is maybe strange in some ways; because it’s without context, it might not be translating what the spirit of that song is. We were reading Eckhart Tolle. He has this book, ‘The Power of Now’. It’s all about being present, and it was such a profound thought for us when I was writing some of this stuff. In that song, in the bridge says, “life is gory, and boring sometimes.” Life is so full of everything, beauty and brokenness, big moments, and really little, shitty, boring moments. And we just do that every day. 

We are great when we can be present to it all and live in that. That’s where a great life comes from, in my perspective. Everybody gets their own version of that and their own moments, and you don’t necessarily get to choose all the time what they are. To be human and to live is just live those moments. It’s such a trap and temptation to get stuck in the past about where you’ve come from, and what you’ve been through, and also to be afraid of the future. Those two things can be very defining of your present, probably more so than the actual present that is actually going on. That is the heart of the record, and the heart of a lot of what I sing about is about trying to hold it all. That line, particularly, is a very hopeful statement. Even in our small little lives, we can still be great. I don’t know – maybe I should have called the record ‘Today We’re The Greatest, Even Though We Feel So Small.’

You’ve said you “want to make music that loves its listener”? What are the key parts of doing that for you?

The only way we can really do that is if we’re trying to authentically share ourselves, especially when you don’t know the listener at all. You only have your experience, and you don’t really know anything. We’re all dummies, and all we can do is share what we do know, what we’ve seen, and what we think. It resonates with some people; it doesn’t resonate with other people. For me, the music that has struck me and loved me and pushed me, has been by artists saying, “This is my story, this is how I think about this, and this is what I see.” And that’s beyond music — it’s how someone lives their life. The call is to be truthful, but it requires you to think, listen and see, and then figure out a way to reflect that back, which is a great personal challenge to try. 

Who are those musicians that have impacted you in that way? Do you try to emulate them, or do you just appreciate from afar?

There’s almost been a handful of artists that would have narrated certain portions of my life. It’s not even necessarily artists that I’ve listened to the most. I mean, they’d probably be up there. In terms of that voice in my life, Thom Yorke is huge, and Sufjan Stevens, Matt Berninger from The National, and Kate Bush. They’re these people who I feel really speak in such a way that made me feel like, “Oh my gosh, yes! That is what it’s all about, I feel this.” That was such a balmunto my soul, especially as a young person when you feel like you don’t know who the fuck you are. That is an exciting thing you can strive to do as an artist.

I do think one of the things that ties all those artists together is that they’re all quite powerful and vulnerable storytellers. Were there any things that you really felt had to be on this record, or any stories that you felt really had to be told right now?

I don’t think so. In terms of what I sing about, I’m actually not like, “Oh, I have this burning message on my heart.” Sometimes I’ll feel like I have this burning melody in me, or I’ll have these chords that are just circling around in my head, and then I’ll sing something in response to those chords. All of these songs always start with the music, and it’s almost like I’m singing in response to what I’m hearing. I can fashion it or build it in such a way that paints a picture, and it just rolls out. Whatever I think is important in life ends up tumbling out.

I also wanted to talk about the rollout of these singles because I found some of the stuff you did in terms of marketing quite unique, such as the newspaper ads for “R U 4 Me”, and then the Magic 8 ball for “Questions”. What’s the creative process that comes when you’re making those promotional decisions, especially when the record has been finished for quite a while?

A lot of that has come from just having space, not touring, and just having more time to think about how to engage with the music in another way. A lot of that stuff is from our wonderful team. Touring is probably the main vehicle of getting our music out there, and we just don’t have that. I’m not very good with social media, so then it’s like, how can you think creatively to engage with people? I do want to engage with people, and I find it hard to know how to do that authentically through Instagram or whatever. A lot of that comes out of trying to find different ways to connect when we don’t have touring. It’s cool to be able to have the time to explore some of those ideas.

It really set the scene for the record, as well. I remember seeing the “R U 4 Me?” ad in the paper and I was curious. I’ve seen you guys perform in a number of different settings: Sydney Opera House, Oxford Art Factory, and then last year at the Newcastle City Hall at the seated shows. How did you find the current restrictions affect your set and the way you guys perform together?

Those shows we did at the end of last year were a bit of a trip because it was so different in terms of energy, having those shows sitting down and a lot of space. I’d come to really work with the crowd energy but, in saying that, I actually think over those shows there was a wonderful experience of me learning how to engage in a different way, in a different energy. I ended up sharing more and chatting more, because there is more space, and there’s more silence because people aren’t jumping up now. It’s a very different vibe.

For these shows we’ve got in May, we feel excited because they’re in concert halls. Everyone’s gonna be seated, spaced-out again, and we feel excited about how we work with that and really celebrate that and not feel like, “Oh, I wish we could be doing a normal Middle Kids show.” This is a Middle Kids show — how can we make that special for everybody? How can we make it a space that people feel uplifted in and really good in? We’re having a lot of fun planning that show andwe’re excited to make it a musical night, with different instruments, and highlight this new record. It’s kind of perfect timing, actually. It is different, but it’s good. It forces you to go somewhere else.

Yeah, I think some bands balk at the thought of doing seated shows, but I think it’s nice that you can embrace the creativity it gives you in other ways. Do you think this time is a bit of a trigger for change, being such a dramatic event? Do you think there’s potential for things to change within the industry here?

That Newcastle show was part of the Great Southern Nights initiative by the government, and stuff like that coming out of COVID was really cool. They could potentially keep doing it. It was a really wonderful way for different parts of Australia to experience music and community. Even from an artist standpoint, to be given opportunities to go to places that we necessarily wouldn’t. It’s hard though — there’s the industry side of things, and then there’s the artist side of things, and artists are usually the absolute battlers in society. That’s part of the nature of being an artist, and obviously you want support and help, but if you look at history, that’s just never been the way. If you want to make art, you have to own that in some ways, and deal with that in whatever way that is. But that was one thing I could see being something that exists beyond pandemic times.

If Middle Kids retired tomorrow, what would you want to be remembered for?

Encouraging people to sing. I really like singing and I love it when people can sing, not even in a melodic way, but just to lift their voice.